It's not urban sprawl, it's too many animals looking for food, and no hunting seasons etc.

Lol! typical animal rights left wing line of -too many people-, unbelievable.


Pat gives an excellent example about the deer being all over the place. I don't think Pat just urban sprawled all over the deer's rights. I think the deer went to Pat, and there's a reason for it.

..and it has everything to do with "animal rights".


There are fox, deer, coyote, wolves, mountain lions, moose, all kinds of animals showing up in places that have been heavily populated for...(wait for it) TWO HUNDRED YEARS!

Hello! The animals are coming to town, get it! It isn't people going into the woods.


Btw, someone seems confused, a dolphin would be an animal that is easily domesticated, not a wild and dangerous animal, obviously...haven't seen a dolphin in my yard, lately, either, come to think of it.

Ed

Actually, Ed, I'm thinking the deer were always there but we've usurped their woods and the territories they typically roamed in to house people - a reality that has to happen in the real world. Unfortunately, the deer and all other forms of animal life suffer because of our ever-increasing population and its' quest for homes in the 'burbs. But personally, I think this is a totally different thing than capturing wild dolphins and sticking them in tanks for the benefit of humans.

I'm not sure who we're arguing with here. I'm not animal rights anymore or less than I'm people rights and I'm certainly not a tree-hugger. I'm just one person who firmly believes that unless ill or injured, dolphins should remain free in their natural environment as opposed to being kept in slimy tanks for the benefit of people who want to 'swim' with them and 'play' with them, against all the laws of nature that most people would accept as reasonable.

pat

Ed, I can't speak to your area, but here in Northern Virginia, wild animals appearing in heavily populated areas has much to do with urban sprawl. Taking deer for instance, they are certainly migrating in search of food. Their food supply has been reduced by bulldozing every tree and field for the span of counties as this area expands outward. Hence, their primary source of food is your backyard shrubbery. Perhaps not elsewhere, but there is a hunting season for deer here. The traffic further culls the herds.

There is no comparison of the US population 200 years ago, when it was less than 10 million people. At the turn of the 20th century, the population was only 75 million, compared with the 300 million of today. Unless those extra 200 million people are "animal rights activists," I don't see how they are responsible.

This all really has little to do with the dolphin amusement park. People can choose to patronize it or not. It does seem like a lot of people are turned off when they look further into the conditions and issues above. To each his/her own...

pat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, Ed, I'm thinking the deer were always
> there but we've usurped their woods and the
> territories they typically roamed in to house
> people -


I don't think it works that way. If a mall is built where a deer lives, the deer moves farther out, not in towards established housing etc. Animals seek natural feeding grounds. The problem is, these natural areas aren't big enough to support the overpopulation of animals, and the animals are forced into cities and towns. (Don't worry, your local Lord and Taylor didn't take Bambie's home)

This is where the "animal rights" activists come in. There should have been animal population control programs, right along, to prevent the current situation. (and it's going to get worse, not better.)
But, the left wing controls the animal agenda, and not only blocked anything rational in this regard, but actually pushes through animal protection legislation that allows wild animals to roam freely on tax paying private property.




This isn't a discussion about whether animals should be able to multiply to an infinite extent without interference from people, as far as I'm concerned. Obviously, with people, they can't. We're talking about animal rights V. private property rights. And now, lately, we're also talking about animal rights V. public safety.


The politics of this is, (no, it's not about animal lovers against the big meanie developers) an attack on private property, and individual freedom.



Of course, the left wing influenced St. Maarten/St. Martin doesn't have this problem; For example: you'll never see a stray cat or dog. But you BETTER register your turtles with the government...you tortoise abuser, you :-)



Of course, why should we really care, anyway, we can always live amongst hungry prides of lions, goat eating Boa Constrictors and frenzied killer Baboons, someday; like they do in Africa...we have that going for us.














Ed

Oh, I didn't end with the obligatory "dolphin comment".

(green pool water means green pool paint)


The Mirage Las Vegas has been delighting audiences with their happy and well cared for dolphins, for years. Enjoy your dolphin show, there is no credible evidence, and certainly no proof, that dolphins are any different than any other domesticated animal.

Sure, they swam free in the ocean, and dogs hunted in packs on the Serengetti, so what, that doesn't mean that they wouldn't rather have free food, if possible...



Ed

Barbara1,all I know right know is; we have lived in the same place since 1969 and there are more deer than in 1969.The under growth in the woods is gone.(did I mention, we can not hunt near by)There are more deer in NJ than in colonial times with less open land. I agree with Ed saying animals come to humans for food.
To get rid of the problem, arm deer.

Augie;

I am an agnostic dyslexic who questions if there really is a dog.

arm deer? ROFL

yea, I know deer are a problem.
here is an interesting article on humans and wild animals mixing
[edition.cnn.com]

My forestry engineer buddy says deer "must be culled" for the health of the local herd, when found necessary. There are scientific ways to decide where and how many should be taken. It's not only good for the herd but for the good of the local civilian population. Hunger, disease and, believe it or not, "hormonal needs" (i.e. when a dominant buck controls too many "ladies", the crowd of little guys lose out) put stress on any local ecosystem.

"Btw, someone seems confused, a dolphin would be an animal that is easily domesticated, not a wild and dangerous animal, obviously...haven't seen a dolphin in my yard, lately, either, come to think of it."

I guess they know you'd shoot it.

If you're referring to me as confused then I'm more so now. Yikes Chas, the subject changed to deer from dophin a while back. Augie's input is 100% valid in many places and my factual yet seemingly harsh input draws your ire. Fully understood...well thought out and necessary solutions to environmental problems seem to always draw the anger of what environmental engineers call "tree huggers", "green peacers", "save the whalers" and the like. As I've said on the radio many times over a long aero career...cancel IFR...squaking 1200...Spike is out (goodness that was fun to write...clearly my dander is up...forgive me Barbara 1 for stirring the pot !!).

Spike, that wasn't addressed to you. I was replying to a post and "quote" by Ed. It seems this board doesn't show threaded posts anymore.

Just read all the posts and although very intersting not too helpful in my decision making. My family is trying to decide the same thing. Political views aside, is it worth it? BTW - this is our first trip to SXM

spike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're referring to me as confused then I'm
> more so now. Yikes Chas, the subject changed to
> deer from dophin a while back. Augie's input is
> 100% valid in many places and my factual yet
> seemingly harsh input draws your ire. Fully
> understood...well thought out and necessary
> solutions to environmental problems seem to always
> draw the anger of what environmental engineers
> call "tree huggers", "green peacers", "save the
> whalers" and the like.


Well put Spike, you described Chase perfectly.




Ed

Does anyone know if you can take your pet to St.marteen are do they need to be quoritine?

IF you are talking about the Dolphin Swim in Anguilla.....we were told in December by a former employee who was laid off that it was closed for at least 6 mos.